Years of clinical experience with NanoVi enables Caspar Szulc to deliver an especially insightful interview with Rowena Gates.
The format of Caspar Szulc’s podcast is to tell a story. This gives the listener the whole picture rather than separate responses to questions that could leave gaps. This podcast format mirrors Caspar’s approach to healing, which is highly individualized and factors in each person’s story.
For the last 16 years Casper has worked to transform medicine from a one size fits all approach to highly personalized integrative care. Caspar works to educate and empower patients in his role as President and Co-Founder of a company called Innovative Medicine. As a forerunner on the integration of innovative technology with medicine, Caspar believes that “we are right on the cusp of this vertical leap in medicine, health, and longevity”.
Caspar Szulc also oversees the New York Center for Innovative Medicine (NYCIM), which attracts people from all over the world. NYCIM patients benefit from a complex evaluation system combined with a wide range of customized treatment options. The NanoVi device has contributed to patient outcomes at NYCIM for many years. In this podcast Caspar Szulc explores NanoVi technology and offers his insights on its clinical use.
Transcript: The Story of NanoVi with Rowena Gates by the IM Health Team
Caspar (00:00):
I had a very strange childhood… I had the worst case any doctor had ever seen… my job is to keep healing… So that’s the story. We all have remarkable stories within stories of adversity, challenges, trials, and ultimately, healing. This is your health, your story, the podcast.
Caspar (00:22):
I always find it fascinating when we apply science technology and natural healing arts. We’re so brainwashed to think that science and nature or technology and holistic healing can’t work together. But from what I’ve seen, traveling the world for decades, searching for healing methods, the greatest breakthroughs come from their unity. That’s why I’m really excited to have on today’s guest. If you’ve ever seen any of my pictures on Instagram. One of my favorite places to work is the IV chair at our center, the New York center for innovative medicine. That’s where I’m normally using this device to optimize my mitochondrial function and balance my autonomic nervous system. But without further delay, this is the story of NanoVi with Rowena Gates.
Caspar (01:05):
There’s a great story to NanoVi and so much I want to learn about there, but I want to start with you because as I understand, you’re a serial entrepreneur. You have this PhD in international strategic alliances and economic development. So how did you get from that to being involved with this healing tech company and now pushing this to the world?
Rowena (01:26):
It’s kind of ridiculous. My first company was in 1995 internet-based — business to business in international trade and logistics. And I stayed in that field up until about 2005. And then I had a couple of companies, the last one I’d worked for. There’d been a buyout and I I’d worked for them a couple of years and I’d planned to take some time off and I thought, okay, a nice break. But then I offered to help Hans Eng who’s my partner, and he was just kind of getting going. And he’s German. His English was really very different than it is today. And so I was more and more involved in it and handling more and more things. And then I realized that this is, this is really cool because it helps people and this is way more fun than logistics and documentation for international shipments. And so I just kind of stayed. I thought I’d be there a couple months and just have like take some time. And I, just kept going and going.
Caspar (02:34):
That’s usually how it is. You start in the rabbit hole saying, this will be only a little bit of time. Next thing you know, you’re deep into it, it’s years later.
Rowena (02:43):
Exactly. That’s exactly what happened and it’s many years later because during all of that time, we developed the whole of NanoVi technology. It was developed from the late 2008ish in there, up until the present. And so it’s a long run to get a device to market and all the compliance and all of that, there’s challenges to it. So it’s been fun.
Caspar (03:08):
I can imagine there’s a lot of challenges to it because you’re, you’re talking about technology, advanced technology you’re talking, you’re still in the medical or health world, wellness world. And, and this is technology that truly is something different. You’re not copying anyone else’s and working off a blueprint, you kind of started with, from scratch here. So I want you to tell us a little bit, now switching over, about the NanoVi device, because it looks beautiful when it’s lit up and it’s very Instagram worthy. I’ve been posting about it, but what precisely is this tech doing what’s going on inside that is allowing it to have this healing regenerative effect on people?
Rowena (03:46):
Well, for anybody who hasn’t seen that on Instagram, there’s bubbling water on top of the device in a container and that’s creating humidity and the humidity is run through the internal components of the device or the important part, which is essentially an activation or excitation of the water droplets in the air stream. And it’s changing the nature of them. And then ultimately when that is inhaled to the body, it helps change the nature of the cellular water in a way that creates a better environment for protein- folding. And so when I say change the nature, that’s kind of hedging, but what that really is, is it’s creating what’s called ordered water, or the water molecules are more closely packed together. And so that ordered water is what proteins rely on for their folding process. So the protein is going from being an unfolded chain of amino acids into a folded complex three-dimensional shape and to get the energy for that, it draws on the cellular water. And so the protein becomes ordered, the water loses some of its order, and then the body is constantly recharging the water. And so what we’re doing is we’re augmenting that recharging of the water.
Caspar (05:11):
Right so in many ways, it’s an activation, it’s an energization almost of, of molecules that are then inhaled correctly as, once they get activated, once they’re going. So what are they doing? So that’s, what’s happening with the technology? What is it doing within the body then? So you’re inhaling it.
You’re just sitting there, there’s no smell or anything. It’s basically you feel a little breeze. If you have the nasal or a little breeze coming out where you’re breathing in and you’re just sitting there and you’re simply breathing, but what’s going on inside of you while you’re doing that?
Rowena (05:42):
So the key is that the humidity from the device touches the mucus membrane. And then once it’s inside the body, there’s an energy state that transfers through the body very quickly called ultra fast transfer. It’s very fast and good way to think of it is, you know, the physics toy where you hold one ball up and the other end goes up, it’s crossing over the water in the body like that rather than being diffused like a, a chemical might be the way it works in the body. It doesn’t matter where it is, which is if it’s respiratory or your foot, it’s going to have about the same impact. And so it’s because of the way the water molecules in the body are connected. 99% of the molecules in the body are water. And it’s the home for everything. All the proteins are immersed in it. And so on. So the water is really this key underlying structure in the body. And so when we changed the nature of it, that energy state that you talked about, and for people that are interested, it’s called entropy because it’s not energy like heat or light that we think of, but it goes from being chaotic to being organized, that’s entropy. And so we’re making it a little less chaotic, a little more ordered, and then that’s what supporting all those cellular activities.
Caspar (07:08):
And it’s really Interesting because you’re talking about water and I always thought of it, of course, as an oxygen type-therapy, cause you’re breathing it and I, you don’t normally associate breathing water, right? But when you break down the molecules, oxygen is always there in the two elements are there. So essential without air, of course are the, you know, we can only last few minutes. Water also it’s 60, 70% of us. So in a sense, you’re combining these two very essential elements for life critical elements, and you’re activating so many things within. And I want to get into that a little bit because one of the things that we noticed in, I definitely studied in my time here at the medical centers, mitochondrial health. And so, you know, as I see it, you know, you look at the mitochondrial aging theory and reactive oxygen species, which is very important within the NanoVi. I always see that ROS reactive oxygen, when you guys are writing about what this does, and that of course is a free radical, which can damage mitochondrial DNA and that leads to aging. So what is NanoVi doing to combat this?
Rowena (08:13):
Well, it’s interesting because there’s these two aspects of ROS that I’m just going to touch on quickly, because it is part of an explanation of how our technology works, because ROS are certain reactive oxygen species, all of them do damage, but some of them are also signaling molecules. So they’re initiating other activities in the body, and this is all cell biology, but that’s how we learned what to do. So as specific reactive oxygen species emits a very specific wavelength that the body relies on to energize that water for protein folding. And so we’re mimicking that wavelength without the potential of the free radical side of it, which is the damaging component. And so it’s part of that, the wonder of the body where so many things are both good and bad, you know, it’s really good, but if there’s too much of it, it’s really bad kind of thing. And this is one of those balances where the reactive oxygen species do the damage and they also initiate the repair of the damage.
Caspar (09:16):
So there’s a signaling going on, correct?
Rowena (09:19):
Yeah. So we just mimic the repair side of it. It is a signaling molecule in this case, it’s, it’s helping to change the nature of the water. And so the exact same wavelength that is emitted by the free radical is what we emit into the water to create this ordered water. But then we made it better because for everything we do, we have a lot of science and a lot of testing, it looks pretty and all that, but there’s a huge amount of science behind it. And so we were doing testing to show that there’s other wavelengths that can influence the water even more powerfully. And so we added that to the original, which was mimicking the reactive oxygen species. We added to it a more potent wavelength essentially. So we were able to increase the output from the device so that the person got a better, got more at the end of it.
Caspar (10:20):
That’s really interesting. And I think once you say researcher and science, ears perk up, especially when you’re talking anything alternative integrative medicine, health wellness, because unfortunately most of the science goes into the conventional realm. And that’s where you hear a lot of the research and data comes out of to try and prove things or disprove them. Can you go a little bit into what type of scientific data and research or do you know, what are you even looking for in biomarkers? Cause it is a different, I would say, end game to it. Whereas in conventional medicine, of course, you’re trying to manipulate
things and actually force reactions within the body. Whereas this isn’t a forceful type of reaction you’re trying to heal and regenerate.
Rowena (11:02):
So from our side, the research side of it, there’s two areas. One is on the device itself to make sure it’s doing what we believe it’s doing, to prove that. And to prove that what’s coming out of it is what we say is coming out of it. And there’s actually quite a lot of science verifying the technology itself. And then the more interesting side for most of us, the impact it has either on cells in vitro or on proteins or on the body itself. And so there’s a range of studies. There is testing that’s done that’s double-blinded placebo controlled, which everybody likes to hear. Even though a lot of us are like, yeah, you know, you don’t have to hit that standard, but Oh, if you do hit that standard, I’m kind of glad you do.
Rowena (11:50):
So we’ve got that research. And then we’ve also got things like DNA testing for double strand DNA damage, which is the difficult damage when both strands are broken and looking at the amount of repair with, or without the NanoVi device.
Caspar (12:10):
And what are those results showing you?
Rowena (12:12):
Those range from the double strand damage, the measurements called a foci, but it’s the points of damage that they can count were between 15 and 35% lower when the NanoVi device was part of the regime versus when it wasn’t. A lot of variation. And so some people are much more vulnerable to that damage than others. And that’s one thing about our device in general, and you might’ve noticed this clinically is some people that will just have a dramatic impact. You know, they’re buzzing with energy or whatever. And then other people they’re like, Oh, that feels good, but it’s not such a big deal. And it’s because the device only helps the body do what the body needs to do and everybody’s different. And some people have acute needs or some people are sort of close to the edge or the threshold and you can click them over and suddenly they have great mental clarity and they’re just, you know, so focused and, and then for other people it’s more of a continuum and they’ll notice it over time, but they might not have as big an impact the first time they use it.
Caspar (13:25):
It’s so true. And again, this is the core of everything we do is personalization. And yes, you are different person to person, of course. But some people, you know, while obtained while getting this, and we usually have them, regardless of any therapy they’re doing IV, whether it’s another oxidative therapy, they’re — they’re hooked up. You know, we have four or five of these always going and everyone’s getting their NanoVi treatments. But what are, what are some, you said some, feel the energy, some feel a little bit of a cognitive boost or mental acuity. What are some other things that people are feeling just for someone who’s wondering, what can I possibly feel from all of this that you’re talking about in the science and data?
Rowena (14:06):
You mean that I can talk about
Caspar (14:08):
That you can talk yes. That that is not healing, not treating, not diagnosing that, that whole statement written statement.
Rowena (14:16):
The biggest one is probably sleep where people notice they, Oh, I just slept like a rock and that’s balanced in the autonomic nervous system. And that’s another one that you can do so easily as measuring heart rate variability. And you interviewed Michael Kessler about heart rate variability previously.
Caspar (14:33):
I did indeed. It goes hand in hand, right?
Rowena (14:37):
Yes totally. See they get it. And that’s an easy way to kind of gauge the impact of the NanoVi because people will settle and their autonomic nervous system will come back into balance. They relax, take them out of the stress mode. That’s just so important in general, for everything else – for immunity and everything else you’re trying to do. So that’s an easy one to measure. And it’s an easy one for a lot of people to see change because by and large we’re overstressed.
Caspar (15:06):
Absolutely and I have to say, you know, you brought this up. It was, it was something I want to hit on, that autonomic nervous system. So overlooked by most people, most people don’t even quite understand what a ANS automated nervous system they just hear “ah it’s my nervous system,” whatever. It is basically it runs so much that fight or flight response will cause inflammation, lower immune everything. So we’re such big proponents of seeing, are you balanced or not? That is one of our core principles. When you come in and we’re looking at heart rate variability, all the other things. And nowadays, like you mentioned, you have access to these HRVs and an Oura ring or other, you know, apps even do this, probably not as well as, as the advanced systems, but you can measure how the NanoVi is actually working. And you can measure that through the heart rate variability and through analysis of parasympathetic versus sympathetic nervous system. And of course, sleep is so important.
And I think it is one of the overlooked things in society right now is, is, Oh, and the quality of sleep too, because you could get sleep. And so many people are taking their sleeping pills and different things and melatonin and all of that. But unless it’s true regenerative sleep in a parasympathetic state, it’s incredibly hard to heal and regenerate all these things. So NanoVi is absolute, you’re saying that’s one of the top things you’ll see is better quality of sleep.
Rowena (16:27):
Yeah. And one of the reasons you’d get better outcomes in a clinical setting. If you just put it with everybody, for that balance in the autonomic nervous system, because often people are either just generally stressed or if they’re ill, it’s especially stressful. And so just bringing them back into balance a little bit will make everything else you’re doing work better, including the conversations that are being held, because it just puts people in a better frame of mind. And then of course, on the other side that it’s, it’s complimentary to if it’s an IV drip or whatever, you want the protein function to optimize that as best you can and get better use out of any other treatment that you’re doing.
Caspar (17:10):
And that’s really interesting cause we always do it. Like I mentioned, with an IV push or an oxidative treatment, whether that’s ozone therapy, UVB, ultraviolet blood irradiation, hydrogen peroxide therapy, there’s other ones, but the patient usually does ask, wait a second, am I getting too much? How does this differ? You know, I’m getting this and this, and can you go into that a little bit on how it may differ as an oxidative therapy and how it is complimentary and not sort of, I would say, either you know, overriding it or giving too much?
Rowena (17:42):
In combination with oxidative therapies, it’s like a, a hand in glove, it’s a great match because oxidative therapies, not surprisingly, do oxidation. And so the NanoVi is a great way to go, the repair of oxidative damage is all done by proteins. So by supporting protein function, you repair the oxidative damage faster, then you’re just getting the good side and you’re mitigating the downside of things. And so they’re great combinations in some areas it’s interesting because just improving protein function, you can get better oxygenation in the blood, for example, by only doing that without adding concentrated oxygen. And so in some respects, it helps like an oxygen therapy, but it really just augments any of them. Like if it’s hyperbarics or ozone or whatever they’re doing, you get more oxygen in the system and then you get the system working better. And so that utilization is really important and you can see that in mitochondrial function. So if you can improve the mitochondrial function, you know, that you’re working the oxygen, you’re getting better utilization basically.
Caspar (18:58):
And again, it’s the reason that we see, and again, we’re not doing this to just say, Oh, you should go on it, which we do believe that, but we’re doing, we’re actually testing a parameter. We’re seeing if a person is calling for it in a sense if their body requires it and almost everyone does, I don’t think there’s been someone where maybe you shouldn’t do this. Yes. It’s incredibly complimentary to all the therapies we have at our clinic. And every clinic, you know, out there should be doing that. But you know, you have these different types of users. We’re talking more about the patients, but NanoVi, I know is used by biohackers. It’s used by Olympians, athletes, right? What was it that, you know, that kind of, because this is a little bit of a gap, I find medicine and athletics and performance enhancing. So what is it that you think NanoVi is bridging the gap? Let me say between those twos, because normally a medical device, or this is, and I should say medical, but used in medicine would not be used, let’s say by an athlete, but everyone’s using this, right? Tell me a little bit about the experience of those in the athletic performance and basically biohacking realm. How have they reacted to this?
Rowena (20:10):
Well, it’s the same in both, there are sort of three Rs, resilience, regeneration recovery, and both medically and athletes. They both need that, but some of the athletes acutely need the recovery. That’s their career in a way, for these professional athletes it is how well they recover that determines their longevity or how well they perform. And so it’s a really big factor and that’s the biggest driver of why professional athletes will invest in it. But it’s interesting. We talked about sleep earlier and we have athletes that, you know, they have this acute need for recovery, but what they care about is sleep. One of them used it and said, I just slept like a baby so I bought my own device. You know, the first time he used it, it is because they’re traveling all the time. And there it’s a lot of stress and strain on these guys.
Caspar (21:08):
Is that right after one time, you’re going to feel that difference? I understand for, you know, a patient may require a little bit more as they go through a process, but are you seeing that in athletes?
Rowena (21:19):
Yes, beause he had an acute need, right? This was a baseball picture and they they’re playing at night and then they’re wired up and they can’t go to sleep and they’re traveling and it’s just a really, really challenging schedule those guys have. And so I would expect that for all of them. Oh, and there’s another one too actually in New York, the big maple, but he also mentioned sleep as being a really big factor for him.
Caspar (21:51):
You could always go back to that’s where we recover. That is where we regenerate. It’s not during the day it’s during the night, so that that’s probably so important to get that quality of sleep up. And that is great. That again, you’re, you’re showing it in the medical base, which is wonderful. We’re seeing it, clinicians are seeing the improvement and then you’re also showing it in that, you know, the, the best performers on earth, basically people that are trying to live to 180 are trying to perform these feats that are incredible and using this technology to do that. That’s really an amazing feat.
Rowena (22:25):
And then one of my favorite ones, just quickly, on the mental performance side, it’s a huge difference for an athlete. And so that mental sharpness is your brain is a huge user of oxygen. If you’re concentrating, then it’s like running a marathon, you have a lot going on. And so repairing quickly and supporting the brain is a big deal to athletes.
Caspar (22:51):
It’s a big deal to everyone, right? Because nowadays we wrote an article, the, the art of focus, basically making the point that it’s not time that is the greatest resource we have. We all have 24 hours a day that doesn’t change. It’s how we can stay focused for periods of time. You know, nowadays our focus is what only seven or eight seconds on social media is all you have. And then you have all these different things and you’re all vying for that focus. And it kind of leaves you a little bit all over the place, but to stay in what Cal Newport says, that deep-work state of true focus, that’s where you could really make leaps and bounds.
Rowena (23:27):
So I have a great example of that for you. It’s in endurance race car drivers. Their stint will be about an hour and they are making a life important decision every second to two and a half seconds. And so the focus is just incredible in what these people do. That’s one of my favorite, you know, customers, I mean, I’m a huge fan. I’m not even a race car person, but I became one because it’s so amazing, what they do. And they rely on it very heavily for that concentration and focus on the NanoVi.
Caspar (24:03):
The thing is now we do require more than ever. And we had a, a patient also who was using NAD also along with Nadovim for improved mitochondrial function. And it helps the brain as well. And they were a professional skydiver. And you know, that, that also, you know, when they’re doing formations and
things may go wrong and it’s not for long periods, but she said that the clarity she got from that, from the combination NanoVi Nadovim, we use NAD drips, was amazing. It really took her to a new level of being able to be so focused for such a short time almost, but hyper-focused and improving that ability and then resting regenerating after that. Cause there’s a huge adrenaline rush. Of course, all of these different things you need to balance the autonomic nervous system once more. So that was really interesting too.
Rowena (24:51):
Yeah. And it’s interesting. One of these race car drivers used to be a professional skydiver photographer and both of them have done over a thousand dives. It’s like, there’s something about these people.
Caspar (25:03):
The adrenaline junkies, right? But the adrenaline junkies are the ones pushing limits. And you got to say, when you’re pushing limits in the body, you got to go out there, do your research, find a way to allow it to do that. Cause the body under the normal circumstances has its breaking points. You want to optimize it. And I think that’s why I always said, there’s really not much of a difference between optimization of health and healing. You’re all moving in the right direction. It’s away from disease basically. And getting the cells to optimize, getting yourself in a place where everything’s functioning as it should to its highest degree. And that’s why things like NanoVi are really such an important part. I think of not just the, you know, in a medical clinic, but also out there for anyone who really wants to push their performance. Now, is there such thing as too much, is there such thing as side effects here because everyone says, this sounds great. Like most of medicine sounds great until you read all the side effects and then see if you take one pill too many, you’ll end up with a, you know, some kind of very long term disability. So tell me about that side effects you know, duration of how long can you,
Rowena (26:14):
You cannot overuse it in a way that could be harmful. However, it could reach a point where your body just doesn’t need any more of that. So then you’re, you’re sitting there for an, you know, an extra hour or whatever that it actually, isn’t going to do much more for the body or you really start to get diminishing returns. There’s two areas that you would probably come across as a clinician. If you have people that are highly toxic. And I know you treat a lot of Lyme, so you’re watching out for that all the time. Then they may need to start slowly because it does support detoxification and you don’t want to overload their elimination channels. And I’ll bet you’re balancing that every day of the week.
Caspar (26:57):
We absolutely are very familiar with that. Especially if you’re going through an anti-microbial stage where there’s a lot of die off and you’re already getting a good amount of detox and IV pushes and everything glutathione being pushed, all of that then you got to limit how much you’re going to do other oxidative therapies such as NanoVi. So absolutely I would agree.
Rowena (27:16):
The other thing that’s really sweet about it is that it’s easier to detox the liver, the kidneys or the organs and so on, but where NanoVi really shines is the cellular detox where it’s helping the cells let go of things, which is the hard part. So it’s a great combination with other detox and it’s really supportive for certain areas. If they’re going through something rigorous, it can really support the whole system and help them tolerate it.
Caspar (27:46):
So you found it can help detoxification of the interstitial tissue and connective tissue.
Rowena (27:51):
Yes.
Caspar (27:51):
That’s great. Yeah, because that’s where it usually is stored people don’t realize that that’s what they should be testing for toxicity, not the, you know, what is kind of being discrete as one thing what’s stored in that connective tissue is usually what leads to abundance of chronic issues.
Rowena (28:06):
And it’s hard to get out. It’s not like you can use chlorella or you know, something and it just, and so that’s, that’s one area that detoxing just has to be managed. And then the other one that’s interesting is actually really good, but there can be discomfort if there’s an old injury and it’s not fully or properly healed. And part of the healing process can be inflammation that it needs to kick in some inflammation – acute inflammation, not chronic, the bad stuff. And then it goes through that healing process. And so we see this, we always see it in athletes. It’s some of the mixed martial arts guys were the ones that taught me about it because they have all these injuries. They didn’t heal them properly. They iced it. They went back in, I mean, and so then they’d say, Oh, that’s interesting. You know, my shoulder’s a problem or my elbow or whatever, but then they would resolve completely, which is a wonderful thing. And so you might get somebody that’s got some old tennis elbow or something and they say that it started to ache and you’re like, good.
Caspar (29:18):
You’re right. I mean, in Europe, it’s always, that’s what they look for in European biological medicine. You’re looking for a reaction that it is either a detox or a slight inflammatory reaction because those are both healing elements you require. But in the US, my father always said to us, you try and avoid that as much as possible. Cause people just stop. They’ll say, I don’t want one ounce of pain, extra I’m paying you to heal when they don’t realize that healing is never a linear straight up. You know? And part of that process is a little bit of discomfort. As you heal, as you have inflammatory processes that are going to be acute and will resolve, but you’re saying that that shows up with those old injuries.
Rowena (29:58):
Oh yeah. And these guys, I mean, in the US, it’s classic to just ice it and you’ve just shut down a whole bunch of stuff that maybe it was supposed to be happening. And clearly there’s a balance because you know, you don’t want it ballooning out or something, but, but there tends to be a lot of people that didn’t really go through the whole healing process.
Caspar (30:17):
That again, is the wonderful part of this technology or this approach. It’s getting you to catalyze that healing process. And sometimes that catalyzation is going to cause a little bit of discomfort, some of those things, but that is what you want. You want to heal and get back into self-healing rather than just management and trying to avoid any type of discomfort that comes along with the healing process.
Rowena (30:40):
And that’s one area where we’ve got the double blind placebo controlled evidence is in the ability to kick into the acute immune system or that acute inflammatory process once the body’s been damaged. And so that’s, that is one of the areas that we’ve looked at on the science. And so I thought I’d mentioned that, but it’s clearly, it’s a double blind crossover study. So it’s clearly an impact for that, that immune response.
Caspar (31:12):
No that’s great because so, so many people now, of course, in this day and age 2020 with pandemic going on are all focused on immune response. And, and well, some people are, some people are looking at other things, but you should be looking of course, at that immune response. And my father has always mentioned that, you know, one of the greatest things that is under spoken, or basically not referenced enough is people with lowered immunity and what that does and chronic load. And, of course, it all goes together. You can’t just say it’s lowered immunity. It’s, you know, free radicals it’s inflammation. They all go hand in hand, along with the regulation of the ANS NanoVi is causing this acute immune response that can be helpful in stimulating immunity. Correct?
Rowena (31:57):
Right, exactly. Yeah. That, that’s a big piece of the problem. I think of the immune system as an orchestration of protein functions. So if you’ve just helped the proteins a little bit, it’s, it’s going to make a difference.
Caspar (32:10):
Help those troops defend, correc?. It’s arming those proteins. And that’s, that’s really all we have in our defense system is this incredibly advanced immune system. And to provide them with the necessary tools to take on any foreign invaders. It’s, it’s a lot of what we talk about when we look at things like Lyme disease and other infectious diseases that become chronic is where is the immune system and all of this and how come it’s having such a hard time with all of these usually co-infections? So NanoVi has been great part of addressing that. Now how many different types of units do you guys have?
Rowena (32:45):
We have three different models of it. So there it’s all NanoVi it’s the only thing we do and people will ask do you have other different products you’re going to do. And we’re like, are you kidding?
Caspar (33:00):
Everyone says, you know, it’s, it’s so popular now to always be coming out and new things, new things, new things, but I’ve always admired just having one great thing, you know, and just working on that.
Rowena (33:12):
I mean, we need it to be, everybody should be using this, right? So we’ve got so far to go with just this one technology. And I love it in centers like yours, where people have access to it. I’d love to have more public access to it. And it’s inexpensive over time, I would say. But the initial investment for our device ranges from a little above $5,000 to almost $14,000, depending on the model, it’s not inexpensive to purchase. However, once you own it, 20 people a day can use the same device. And it will last for far past our lifetimes probably it’s it’s expected.
Caspar (33:52):
It’s great. I mean, we use it throughout the day on patients. I’ll sit down at the end of the day and sit there for 30 minutes, reading a book, getting it. So it definitely has its return on investment very quickly. Now I know a lot of the patients here, do you ask, Hey, can I bring this home with me? And we say, well, this is ours, but is there a unit that you can, that is more suitable for someone to just take home rather than the professional units at the higher cost range?
Rowena (34:17):
You know, it’s interesting. Most of the people that the one we sell the most of, even for home is the high-end one. But all depends on the price point and it’s a time and money trade-off. And so the smaller models work great. If the people have the time to put in and there aren’t too many people trying to share one device, in which case there’s just not enough time.
Caspar (34:40):
How much time would you need on the small one? Cause normally what we’re doing is over 30 minutes to an hour, while they’re in the IV chair, they’re having the nanoVi do that. So it works out fine. But with the smaller unit, how much time would, would you require?
Rowena (34:52):
Well, for the equivalent it’s, you’ve got an Exo device, right. That you’re using or you’ve got a couple of, yeah. And so it would be a half hour on that device would be like two hours on a home device.
Caspar (35:07):
So you just gotta sit there at home with that one and kind of go through it, which some people would have no problem. You know, if you’re sitting in doing work, it’s just there. It’s not, you know, bothersome.
Rowena (35:16):
Exactly, exactly. And so ideally the middle device is, is better. If people can do that versus this, the one that takes a full hour. So then the session would be, you know, a half hour to an hour is more manageable for people, but it really is that trade-off of time and money and we get people that buy the smallest device and then they’ll upgrade to the bigger one and we’re happy to do that. We give them their full, full amount towards the next device, but it is interesting the number of people that buy the big devices and even in the shopping cart, which like, I just don’t do that.
Caspar (35:56):
Have you ever thought about a really smaller version that you could wear on you and just have connected to you all day?
Rowena (36:02):
Well, you don’t, you’d have to appreciate what’s actually going on inside there. There’s a reason this is this size, yhere is actually got a lot that can only be condensed so much. And it also requires a certain amount of power because we get that all the time with athletes, especially, and you know, they want a portable device and it’s not in the cards in the near future.
Caspar (36:26):
I can imagine, I mean, listen, you ready? Got it down to a smaller version. This isn’t a huge thing. And then do you know, we just got another one. I was unpacking it. It is such a nice size. Almost. It just sits there on our cards of course. But it could basically sit anywhere. What are the dimensions on the Exo? It’s about 12 or 16 inches wide, right?
Rowena (36:46):
It’s about 12 by 12.
Caspar (36:48):
Okay. It’s a box basically. So it’s not this, we’re not talking about a large device here of course, but it does so much. And I could understand why it’s, it’s not quite, we’re not at that quantum computing level probably, yet to get it into a wearable size, but maybe someday, maybe someday. What, what are you guys looking at? Because obviously you said you’re not really looking to create new ones. What are you hoping for out of Eng3, and NanoVi?
Rowena (37:17):
Well, we have a lot of studies going on, and ongoing research, which are related to proteins and protein function. It’s really impressive stuff. And the repair of the proteins. So that’s an area we’ll keep doing more and more of that work. We don’t study diseases because that is where medical claims are related. And so we’re looking at underlying things like the ability of proteins to repair, or heart rate variability. Some of these things that are not specifically medical, so we will keep doing more of that.
And we are looking at other aspects of the insides of the technology, things that are still way out of the price range for us to incorporate. But as technology gets, you know, less expensive, we may be able to kind of amp it up even more, but there’s, there’s still quite a lot of costs to building them.
Caspar (38:19):
Sure. And I do applaud that, that focus on going into the research, going into the data, what it’s showing and proving how it works, because I feel like too much, too many times in the health and wellness field, you find these companies that just look to, to market, to just push more things out there, to grow, grow at this considerable rate and just, you know, push out competition without actually looking at the data or what it’s really doing to the users and how it’s really impacting them. And it becomes like we discussed earlier more of a marketing game than a medical game, or you say health game. And that, that there’s the balance. You have to have both, you gotta be out there to try and help people obtain their health. But also I understand the business side of marketing.
Rowena (39:06):
Yeah. We’re doing more and more on the science and research side. I would say with the marketing, there’s a lot of room for improvement.
Caspar (39:14):
Well, listen, I think, you know, you do one and the other comes about sometimes if you let it and you’ve got some great people, as I heard you on Dave, Asprey, you know, Ben Greenfield, others, that, that I am in the circle with an understand that they’re really looking to promote the best products out there. So in
a sense, the new age of marketing is, is, Hey, let the actual product be the proof, let the users experience it. Right. And then provide the evidence along with the experience that is the best model.
Rowena (39:44):
And that’s exactly how we’ve done it because we didn’t do the, you know, the full-blown marketing push that approach just didn’t appeal to us. Because for one thing you have to raise so much money that you’ve then lost control of the company. And you’re beholden to people that are profit oriented and we’re doing this, you can’t lift something like this passionately, unless you really care about the whole point, which is to help people and to not override the body, to support it, to, to do it, you know, use its wisdom to optimize itself and improve a person’s condition. And so we’re really, we’re really keen on that. And we didn’t want to give up on that in order to go ahead and, you know, just blast it out in the market.
Caspar (40:34):
I really appreciate that. And don’t ever give up on that because that’s so important to stay true to the original mission I’m sure. And, and what you’re doing to help others. And of course, it’s, it’s very, I would say intoxicating at times to look at how you could grow so big and you know, market this. And I’m sure, you know, at some point it could be something that is mainstream that people are using, but where you are right now in that growth and what, you know, clinics like ours and others, I hope more and more clinics do jump on board and more and more people do use this because it’s safe, it’s simple and it helps. And those are the three things I think everybody should be looking for. If you’re looking to optimize your health or move away from a disease state. So you know, that that’s, that’s the wonderful part.
Caspar (41:19):
It’s combining technology with natural approaches. There’s nothing chemical about this, nothing artificial. So that’s why I was so excited to have you on board because this is the embodiment of a new paradigm of medicine. And it’s one that does not also vilify technology. I know so many, you know, old school acupuncturists and naturopaths that don’t want to do anything with technology because they see it as something that’s harmful to the human body and the energy part. But no, we we’ve seen this and we are all about a natural approach, especially at our clinic. That’s what I’ve been brought up to be a part of is that nature heals. And you’ve been able to incorporate technology in that. So that’s really awesome.
Rowena (42:01):
Well, I really like what you’re doing and I think we’re both very fortunate in the last few years to see such an emergence of people who are trying to preserve their health or optimize it. And rather than letting it all go downhill and then asking for a diving catch later to recover it.
Caspar (42:21):
Let me ask you are you seeing that more and more? Is that the trend or is it just me kind of being very hopeful? That’s the trend.
Rowena (42:28):
I love that. I cannot believe how much that’s emerged as a market for us because people will say I’m going to invest right now. And that’s actually the best financial decision to invest in my health and not get old and sick. And we’ve just had this tremendous growth in this area and also a huge growth lately
with people recognizing that supporting your immune system is a really good idea. A little resilience goes a long ways. These days.
Caspar (42:56):
A huge way. Everyone I’ve spoken to. We were all saying there is a silver lining in 2020 it’s that, you know, people are once again, adhering to health is the first wealth. It is the most important thing. It is the best investment you could ever have is into your health, the ROI, even if you want to go and look at it as an entrepreneur is amazing. I, all the people are like, Hey, what stock should I do with this? Invest in your health, you will be able to think clear, make better decisions, you know, do more during the day, sleep better, feeling good, rested the next day. You know, not feeling burned out at all ever. And that you’ll be wow. It’s, it’s just, and again, avoiding diseases is an incredible thing and very expensive to get out of. And, and we always say, this is not a, you know, few week mission. If you’ve had chronic disease for years, it’s going to take some time. We will help you with products like NanoVi and technologies like that, but you’re going to still need to heal your body. And that takes a lot of time.
Rowena (43:59):
And our first many years with NanoVi was, almost all chronic diseases. That’s when your, your father and you, and but it was mostly related to chronic diseases. And that’s, what’s so exciting is to see that shift away from, of course, we’re still supporting people with chronic diseases. That’s not a question, but to have that recognition that that’s so important to take care of health, especially mental health things where people are really changing their attitude, I I just love that.
Caspar (44:32):
I love that too. And I have to say that I hope this continues in this trend and continues to put a spotlight on health, on prevention, on what are the natural ways. And again, using technology using this advanced understanding of things and using the data and science as you are to help preserve that and hopefully get us in a trend from moving away from being a disease society into one that’s healthy and lives long and happily. So great going with that. Any final thoughts or anything you want to share as we close this?
Rowena (45:05):
No, I think that you’ve really you’ve touched on a lot of bases and they’re always there, all the things that are most interesting to me, which is maybe not surprising, but I really appreciate your use of the NanoVi device and that you appreciate it because it as this this incredible tool that’s got a lot of versatility.
Caspar (45:24):
Absolutely and I loved all of these topics we talked about because to me, it is the foundation of where we need to move to in medicine and healing and understanding what health is as a society. And we have these amazing tools. And I think we just need a little bit more awareness. We need more stories told like yours and the Eng3 and NanoVi, and I think we will come to this point inflection point that why wouldn’t we do this now we’ve seen the other way for so long. We’ve seen what pills and surgeries and just, you know, mask the symptom. Don’t worry about what you’re eating. Don’t, you know, no, it comes a time now. I think it is a point of inflection where we’re going to say, we need to take responsibility for our health. It’s the most important thing. How can we do that and start searching out for things like NanoVi and I really do hope people, you know, really catch on and, and start to use this more. And I know I’ll be
pushing this on all my doctor friends. So, you know, thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you for bringing this out to the world and thank you for your efforts to get it out to more people and help more.
Rowena (46:27):
Yeah. And thank you for everything you’re doing. Your format is great. And I think people really appreciate that. Knowing the story of things.
Caspar (46:36):
I really appreciate that. I think stories connect us on emotional levels and, and we, as humans are emotional and I hope that’s where we can go and see things more clearly and, and kind of connect back with who we are as humans and understand we have so much power within us to heal ourselves and to also heal others.
Rowena (46:54):
I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity to speak.
Caspar (46:59):
Yeah. There’s so many amazing uses of technology to improve our state of health. And I always really enjoy talking with people like Rowena who have great appreciation for how to optimize health in sophisticated ways. If you want to learn more and exactly how NanoVi works or how you can incorporate this type of tech into your life, go to eng3corp.com/IM That’s E N G the number 3 CORP.com/i M. We’ve worked with Rowena and her team and Eng3 to produce a landing page for our audience there. Again, that site is E N G number three, CORP.com/I M until next time, continue writing your own healing.
