Why is NanoVi^® featured in the Best Night Ever podcast by Dr. Jay Khorsandi, DDS?

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, we are live. Rowena welcome to the show.

Rowena Gates: Hi, it is a pleasure to be here Jay.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: All right, so we are going to be talking about this fascinating technology. I am super excited to have you on here. This is something that you and your partner have developed, and it has been in the making for almost 10 years now. So, a lot has gone into this thing, it is called the NanoVi, is that right?

Rowena Gates: That’s right.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, but before we get into that, I just wanted to kind of touch base with what you have done in your past. This is not your first adventure into technology, you used to do some other stuff with some heavy hitters back in the day.

Rowena Gates: Yeah, back in the 90s, I was one of those early internet-based entrepreneurs. So, I am actually a serial entrepreneur, it’s all I have done.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, and these days you are focused on this technology device called the NanoVi, right?

Rowena Gates: Correct.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, so what led you to come up with this device?

Rowena Gates: Well, all the credit on the technology is my partner’s Hans Eng.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, Hans Eng.

Rowena Gates: He has a background in material science, and has looked at proteomics, and there are areas there that he was drawing on and looking at the natural triggers for repair, one is a reactive oxygen species. It is actually a free radical that triggers repair as well, and so in looking at what that signal was, what that wavelength was, he determined that it could be made artificially. He was kind of digging in on the science and then worked through to the solution, that is now the NanoVi.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, so with a name like Hans, he is obviously from Germany, right?

Rowena Gates: He is from Germany.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yes, I have listened to some of his podcasts with some other people, and he has got quite a lovely German accent.

Rowena Gates: Yes.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: This is great, and his background, you said is in material science and biophysics and things like that.

Rowena Gates: And engineering.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: So, perfect fit for this kind of technology, which people listening right now are going, you know, “what is this thing, right”? And before we get into a deeper dive into what this thing is and how it can help you and change lives, I want to try and describe it or ask you to describe it. I have had it for a while now, and in my practice, I have been having patients try it, I have let friends and family try it, and before I let them do it, I try to describe what it is, and man I have tried all kinds of different ways to kind of give them a little preview of what they are going to be in for, but what would be the kind of the quick, let us say 30-second description of what this thing is?

Rowena Gates: Okay, it sit sits on a tabletop, about the size of a small printer, and it has tubing that comes from it, and you breathe humidified air from the end of the tubing, and it is the humidity, the water droplets that are the secret sauce. They have been adjusted by the device, so that they will influence biology.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, all right, I have called it the magic anti-aging machine, but I do not know if that is… _

Rowena Gates: It is, it is.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: The name is called NanoVi. How did you come up with that name, because I have been telling people that, and I was wondering about it?

Rowena Gates: Well, nano is at the very small scale, and Vi is really vibration. What we are doing is biophysics, and at a certain level, you are shaking things up, and so that is really where it comes from, it also could be taken to be Vi as life in for Latin, and so it was a good name that way.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Like a little life?

Rowena Gates: Yeah.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Cute.

Rowena Gates: Life at a very small scale. We are working in proteomics, they are just very, very tiny.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yes, I would say this machine kind of goes into that quantum realm almost a little bit.

Rowena Gates: Hans might not agree with you on that, but there is lots of people that would.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, all right, yeah, we are going to get Hans on here next time.

Rowena Gates: Exactly.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Speaking of Hans too. So, this device it is from Germany, is it manufactured there.

Rowena Gates: It’s German engineering, but it was actually developed and is manufactured in the US.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, and with that engineering, I know I am a big fan of German products and cars, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, all these things, they are known for being very precise, and that is one of the things I have noticed when I have it is that everything is so precise, accurate, solid, stable, and you just know that it is built with a lot of intention, I guess. So, do you think this is some of the characteristics that make this stand out as kind of like this premier device?

Rowena Gates: It absolutely is and it is part of what you are investing in. Everything in that device is built to last a very, very long time, probably longer than my lifetime.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, I mean is there stuff that wears out in there, you need to like oil change.

Rowena Gates: There is really the weakest part is specified for 40,000 sessions of the device you have, and there is no reason that part should fail at that point, it is just at a minimum it would be 40,000 sessions. So it is a lot, and then if that part did fail, you would just replace it. Because we built everything in Seattle, if a part failed we would just replace it.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: I got you.

Rowena Gates: Yeah, it is really a long-term investment.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, and I have used it a bunch. I have been transporting it around in this little black case, which is so snug and precise, and it has little wheels, roll it around, and yeah, this thing kind of takes a beating and keeps on ticking, so very cool. It has been a favorite of the wellness/antiaging; or you might call it biohacking crowd, for a while now. I mean I have seen people like Dave Asprey, who you know. Ben Greenfield, Dan Pompa, Luke Storey, all these guys, they love this thing, and they just cannot stop raving about it. Sports, athletes, and I know we were talking off mike as well too – about pro athletes. So, why are so many of these industry leaders embracing this?

Rowena Gates: Well, one thing is, it’s got no downside, and it makes other things better, and everybody you mentioned is doing really important things, lots of different things, and it is a device that can amp up everything else. So, you kind of get this double upside with it, it does not matter if you are doing hyperbarics or PEMF or red-light therapy, whatever it might be, it just makes it better.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: So, it is almost like a secret competitive advantage.

Rowena Gates: Exactly, and I should mention it also stands in its own right of course, you don’t have to do anything else at all, and it is a very measurable benefit.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: All right, so when you look at this machine, I mean I think the first time I saw it, it was probably online and then I have seen it at a lot of these conferences and wellness events that you have been to, and you guys have a booth and exhibit. You see this little box, you see this little bendable arm, and you see a little jar with bubbling water and lights changing, right? So, this machine is basically utilizing water to perform a function, is that correct?

Rowena Gates: Correct.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, and the water like you had mentioned in the beginning is exclusion zone or ordered water, right? And this is something that has been the research of Dr. Gerald Pollack up in your neighborhood in Washington area?

Rowena Gates: Yes.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, so can you explain what this exclusion zone water is?

Rowena Gates: I might not do it justice, but the simple explanation is that it is a fourth phase of water and it is more like a gel than like ice or liquid or vapor, It is called exclusion zone because the water molecules are closely packed together, and when they are pack together, they push out any other objects, so it excludes other particles or it is sort of a gel state that nothing else can exist in.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: And what does it do or what is its function or what is the benefit of it?

Rowena Gates: Well, it has got this sort of special property in the human body and there is a lot more research being done on the various ways the body is using ordered water or exclusion zone water. If you think of any of the small containers, like cells or the capillaries, that is where exclusion water will form is on the surfaces, and it is not a thick layer, it is just a thin layer on the surfaces, and so you have to have a very small container for it to form. Then because it is ordered within the cells, and what relates to NanoVi, there is a transfer in energy, and it is really an entropy from the ordered water to the disordered chain of amino acids that make up a protein, and those amino acids have to fold into a very complex structure. To do that, they need energy, and so they are fed that energy from the water, which would then become a little less ordered while the protein takes its 3D structure. Then the body keeps essentially replenishing the order in the cellular water, so that the activities can continue. What we did is we copied what the body was doing to replenish the ordered cellular water. We did it artificially and then we transferred that across humidified water droplets, which are also very small containers for that water, that have been proven to have that ordered water on the shell of the water droplet. Then that hits the mucous membrane and goes into the system and just contributes to the ordered water in the system.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, well that was pretty good, I mean I think for people listening out there, I think the fundamental takeaway with this is almost energy, right? I mean we are giving the body something that it uses and it runs out of, or runs less of, and then this is a supplemental energy, I guess. So, would that be like a way to explain it?

Rowena Gates: Yes, that is a good way to explain it, and as we age we are less able to create this ordered water state, because things start to not work as well. So you want to get out of that downward spiral, you want to augment and keep things moving nicely.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, so this ordered water, exclusion zone, easy water. I have also heard the word structured water; this is not that or is that different or what is going on there?

Rowena Gates: Structured water is, I look at that as being a very big umbrella, and the ordered water would fit under that umbrella, but structured water often means many other things besides the state that we are talking about here, and that would include things like Emoto’s work with influencing water with words, and there is all kinds of really amazing wonderful properties of water. It is just that the part we are working with is a fairly narrow band, and so the ordered water is a bit more precise.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: I got you, yeah and I have read his book. I think it is fascinating this stuff, and I have talked about it in other podcasts as well about my kind of fascination with water these days and the properties that it can impart. So, I’m a big fan of anything that has to do with water manipulation, I guess.

Rowena Gates: I think we are going to learn a lot more. I think we are going to see a lot more in the next 20 years on water, and just what a remarkable substance it is.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, so speaking of this ordered water, easy water, it is produced in nature, can I go buy a bottle of this at the store or our bodies you said make it, but we become less efficient over time?

Rowena Gates: It needs an energy state, and so it will not store. Think of it like a bottle of water that has been heated up, but once you put it on the store shelf, it loses it, and so people will sell structured water which could be doing something different, and you can structure water by adding things that can improve its use by the human body. There can be good things you can do to water, but what we do cannot be stored in a bottle.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, so speaking of that, and I have talked to Martin, one of your employees there, regarding the nasal cannula. So, for people listening and if they are still wondering what this is, you know we are talking about a little box here with a kind of bendable arm and then there is like a little cylinder at the end, that you can either breathe in by putting it close to your nose, like an inch or two away, and you will feel this like vibration or pulse type thing and a little bit of water vapor, or you can use nasal cannulas, which people use like if you think of like oxygen therapy, these have two little prongs that go in your nose. So, one of the questions I had for Martin, I said well can I get like a six-foot long hose, and he said no I do not recommend that, because the distance that it is traveling, that energy is being lost, right? So, you want to have it as quickly as possible, is that correct?

Rowena Gates: Correct, and the inner surface of the cannula is not perfectly smooth, so that can impede those little droplets from moving along intact.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: That is why I have been sticking my face right up to this. Like I want to get it as high of a dose as possible. So, I have been getting really close to that, and it is been very meditative. I know we were talking again off mike, but you know when I have been using it on my patients here, the act of just sitting there and breathing this and there is a little pulse effect to it, is relaxing for me and for many people, when you are just sitting, as long as you are not messing around on your phone and sending a bunch of text and emails, if you are just literally sitting there, breathing this in and there is such a nice, almost parasympathetic response, where you are just kind of relaxing. Whether it is the machine doing it or in conjunction with just sitting quietly and breathing.

Rowena Gates: It is both. Anytime you sit quietly and breathe, that is going to bring you out of a stress mode, but the device can definitely be measured against, a non-functioning device (placebo) or just sitting there, and it definitely helps bring the system into the parasympathetic mode for virtually everybody. Most people have too much stress and not enough relaxation.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: I have the other problem. I have too much relaxation. I do not know who has too much relaxation, but yeah. So, when you use this, it is again, and you mentioned this is almost like aerosolize, almost like a nebulizer, like an asthma inhaler, so that tends to be the best delivery method for this signaling molecule or water.

Rowena Gates: Yes, because the water droplets are so small that they will hold that energy state, the ordered water. So, that is the best. We do not know of any other way to deliver it.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, okay, and we talked about this in the beginning too. So, this machine, I guess the whole point of this conversation or this technology is the machine is here to help improve lives, correct? And I think the main function of this is, I think twofold right? We are talking about reduction in oxidative stress and an increase in protein folding function, does that sound right?

Rowena Gates: Yeah, and they are combined, they are coupled together, because it is the proteins that will fix the damage done by oxidative stress, and the proteins are doing all the work as well.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Let us talk about protein folding. I mean this is something that is a little bit out there for people probably listening, but when I think of folding, I am thinking of laundry. So, we are talking about strands of amino acids, that for them to function they need energy and they need, I mean, you can probably explain it better than I can.

Rowena Gates: Well, there is a lot to protein folding. I think some simple ways to think of it is like a string of beads, a long chain and then it forms a really complicated twisted contorted 3D structure, and to do that, it needs to be bonded in places that hold the thing in place, and those are energy bonds, so to form the shape and hold the shape, it needs that energy. This is the part that we are sort of donating to with our technology. There is really interesting study results, showing the actual impact on unfolded proteins, proteins that are damaged in different ways, like radiation or heat or chemically, and then measuring how they are able to refold and repair and work correctly. The science has been really compelling, it is really exciting. Results are not released yet, but there is a publication that they are getting ready.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, I mean when I first heard the word protein folding, I had to do a little bit of research, but now that I get the idea behind it, I can start to really appreciate the science, and what’s actually going “behind the scenes” of this. Then the other facet that we were talking about is oxidative stress, and I think you touched on it, where we are getting bombarded every day with stressors, whether it is environmental, you know, it is pollution, if it is EMF, if it is toxins in the air, if it is food. I mean these are all putting a load on our body, right? And the result of that is this reactive oxygen species, is that right?

Rowena Gates: Yes. There is that and a lot of different free radicals are formed, and some of them are both free radicals and signaling molecules, and so a lot of them just do damage, but some of them also have this good side to them.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, I was looking at the website, and there is this good reactive oxygen species and bad, right? So, the bad ones would be kind of what is known as free radicals, and the point of this technology is to augment the body’s ability to fend off against these, is that what I am assuming?

Rowena Gates: Yeah, to both fend off and repair the damage, and so if you think about antioxidants, they will protect against damage. Because they will interrupt the free radical, they will neutralize it, but they will not fix the damage that has already been done. This is where NanoVi is so strong, it comes in and helps the proteins repair the damage . It could be the mitochondria, which is something Dave Asprey has talked a lot about.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: He loves his mitochondria.

Rowena Gates: And he notices that is where you feel more energy using the NanoVi, it is because your mitochondria is working better. Your mitochondria is challenged, because that is where the oxidative damage is done, a lot of it, since it is the mitochondria that burns the oxygen. So, you can get that boost out of it, and then all the other cell components and all the proteins that are doing every kind of activity, which is kind of boggling. If you think about anything your body can do, it is probably a protein activity.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, I was doing some research on this and proteins, I mean they are hormones, they are signaling molecules, they are doing so much of the bodily functions.

Rowena Gates: Transferring – like hemoglobin is a transfer protein or a storage protein, yeah.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: So, that answered my next question – as far antioxidants go, why can’t I just chug down a bottle of pomegranate juice and call it a day. This is totally different.

Rowena Gates: Okay, pomegranate juice is a great idea, that is a far better idea than just like loading up on supplements. The thing is that with supplements, you can overdo it, and actually shut down the signaling capacity, they have shown that. The first group to show it, that I know of, was out of Norway about 10 years ago, that showed the athletes did not build muscle, and had this basically a lack of performance if they had too many antioxidants, because it interrupted the repair capacity.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: So, you can overdo it on antioxidants.

Rowena Gates: You definitely can overdo it, but with pomegranate juice, I mean that sounds like a pretty good way to go.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, you know, now you got me worried, because I take too many supplements probably per day, and think I will need to reevaluate.

Rowena Gates: I am not the expert on that, and I know that there is a lot of things that we just do not get from our food the way we used to get them. So, I think a lot of us are looking at how we can kind of shore things up.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, all right, how does this help with the DNA repair. I know we mentioned that a little bit. So, you are saying that this helps the protein folding to then help the DNA repair?

Rowena Gates: Correct and that has been shown as the double strand DNA breaks, which are the hard ones to fix, are reduced significantly for athletes that are using the NanoVi. Many of our studies are on athletes, because it is legal to stress them, to over stress them, and then see what happens, but you cannot take a sick person and do that to them. So, the athletes are a really good subject to look at how well they recover from over exertion.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: So, speaking of athletes, something that has been quite popular these days is VO2 Max. Have you measured that or is this quantifiable?

Rowena Gates: It has been measured, improvements in VO2 Max or in VO2 alone, because that is showing better utilization of oxygen.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: We are going to talk about oxygen and sleep apnea as well. So, for people who do not know VO2 Max is, it is the body’s ultimate ability to use oxygen, and it is a sign of cellular function.

Rowena Gates: And athletes can really build up what they are capable of.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: I have a procedure that we are going to do on you afterwards where I do that in your throat and in your nose, and actually help stimulate opening in there and increase Vo2 Max as well, so I am a fan.

Rowena Gates: That is a really interesting point, it is not just about sleep, it is about utilization. If you have got something obstructive.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Exactly.

Rowena Gates: Oh, that is so interesting. I had not thought of that.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, so the technology is some people saw and they say this looks like a CPAP machine or other people say that this looks like an oxygen thing that you might see at like airport or at a casino or something like that, but this is something totally different.

Rowena Gates: It is.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: But how does it compare to, let us say, an oxygen booth at the mall or a hyperbaric oxygen therapy chamber or molecular hydrogen. I mean there is so many different things going on these days that I am thinking of as bubbling and blowing out stuff. So, how does this compare to those things.

Rowena Gates: Okay, now do not be fooled by bubbling and blowing out stuff, but with oxygen to start with both hyperbaric and concentrated oxygen, they are adding more oxygen to the system, and our device will improve utilization, but there is no extra oxygen. So, if a person is low in blood oxygen saturation, better utilization will show an improvement, and so they get that improvement of more oxygen without concentrated oxygen.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: So, you can use this in conjunction?

Rowena Gates: Absolutely, there is a lot of use in conjunction and there is a tremendous use amongst the hyperbaric centers. The combined results are so much better, and so that is something that happened a little while ago now, but there is a real run on NanoVi devices sold to hyperbaric centers, and we have some centers with four devices. You know, that are just, they just get better outcomes.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: And it is something that you would do before or after the therapy or during? How does that work?

Rowena Gates: Most do it after, and after hyperbaric, the body is still flooded with oxygen for up to almost an hour. So, then if you add the NanoVi while it is still flooded, you are really getting a double upside, and also it helps people kind of adjust from the therapy better. So, some people will do better than n coming out of hyperbaric.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, one other one that is interesting to me is molecular hydrogen, and I have had those tablets that I have used when I have talked about them on my jetlag hacking episodes, and then there is machines and generators that will do it as well too. So, how does that compare to this?

Rowena Gates: So, molecular hydrogen is a very different thing, it is a wonderful thing, and there is a lot of the research out of Japan, showing benefit of it, and it is really a great combination, they are complementary, but our device is not a molecular hydrogen device, and theirs cannot do what ours does. Now, the confusion is in the version where you instead of drinking the water, you breathe from a tube, (the cannulas yeah). Right, and then that is automatically confusing, because there are not that many things where you are breathing out of a cannula. So, people tend to think well then it is all the same, but it is really very different.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, I think so.

Rowena Gates: And molecular hydrogen we were talking about is an antioxidants, it is a fabulous free radical scavenger, it is very small molecule, it will get in places, it will scavenge free radicals Our device is not a scavenger of free radicals. Remember, we are repairing free radical damage, which is after the fact, and so it is on that preventative side.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, I think this technology takes it one step further beyond any kind of scavenging, as it is active repair of past damage or damage that is happening on the fly, and I think there was a stat which I was reading that the body produces quadrillions of free radicals a day, which is nuts. I mean these are just crazy things, and if you exercise, that will increase it a hundred times. So, we are just free radical damage-producing machines.

Rowena Gates: Exactly and the amazing thing about the body is it does all this repair all the time on the fly, it is incredible.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: It does all this repair, the trick I think is as especially as we get older is that we become less efficient, right? And that is where things like this technology come into play, where it helps boost our body’s ability to kind of fight back, is that right?

Rowena Gates: Exactly and not go into those downward spirals, because once the protein activities are not as good, then they do not repair the free radical damages as well, and on and on, and so you really want to do this, and you know what you cannot let that go downhill.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: I know, I certainly do not want to go down that road. I see patients every day that are suffering from so many different diseases, most of them chronic these days, it is all chronic stuff, there is acute stuff still happens, yeah you can get hit by a car and things like that, but these chronic inflammatory diseases are just so rampant and so difficult to deal with, because a lot of these are lifestyle diseases.

Rowena Gates: Yes.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: And you know, I think this machine is a compliment to a healthy lifestyle, maybe I don’t know if it is chicken or the egg, where you know if you start using this, you become more aware of your choices or you start making good choices, then this becomes a benefit on top of that.

Rowena Gates: And it does not really matter. I think everybody should know that even with these chronic illnesses, there is tremendous room for improvement, because the body is kind of designed to repair itself. So, you just have to help it and not do those bad things to it.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Do not do the bad things folks!

Rowena Gates: Do the good things, and one of the best things is sleep, is good quality sleep, you just cannot buy that, you have got to have that sleep, that is when the body is repairing. All this protein activity, all that repair, most of it gets done at night.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: And we are going to talk about sleep too, because this is the best night ever, and this is all about sleep and how this can affect that, but before we get to that, my question for you I guess is who can benefit from this technology?

Rowena Gates: So, in our history, the first many, many years were chronic illness, and any chronic illness is an oxidative stress-related illness at some level. Then, more recently, we have had a lot more uptake by athletes, both amateur and professional, high performance individuals, and wellness and healthy aging, which we love, because there is so many more people who are interested in preserving their health rather than trying to recover it later. That is a joy for us. We just love it, to be working with those people who are very high-performance individuals. I wanted to shout out to this racing team called J2. These people are in their 60s, and they are winning, and you know world-class auto endurance racing, is both physically and mentally incredibly demanding.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, I am a big car enthusiast, and that was one of the people that I was going to mention earlier on. I see that there is a German racing team, right?

Rowena Gates: Yeah, they are actually, one of the members is German, one British, and one U.S. The team is kind of out of the U.S.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: They are racing as a Mercedes or BMW.

Rowena Gates: They are now racing Mercedes. They were in Porsche untill this year.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: I mean I am a fan and as soon as I saw that they are using this, I know I have raced cars before too, and I know that the endurance that you know people might not think that it is an athletic thing, but it is a big deal sitting in this car, it is often hot, you are pulling high G forces, sweating like crazy. I mean it is a total tear down of your entire body. I mean it is like a crazy workout.

Rowena Gates: And they make a life important decision every couple of seconds.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yes, you do not want to mess up there, because it is life or death.

Rowena Gates: Yeah, it is really quite amazing, and again there is a sleep issue there, because when people are in such an intense situation, then they are meant to just go home and go to sleep, and that is the case with every professional athlete as well. They have trouble unwinding from the game, and they are in a highly competitive really stressed mode.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Sympathetic mode, yeah.

Rowena Gates: And then switching from that to sleep is super challenging.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Does this help with that?

Rowena Gates: It does. It will help bring that, you know, into that calm parasympathetic mode, and almost every professional athlete will use it for that when they get back to their hotel room.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: So, we are talking about the people that can use this, are people that are either sick and trying to become normal healthy, I guess, and then there is also the optimization crowd that are fairly healthy, but they want to “take it to the next level,_” _is that right? And is there like a recovery benefit with this as well too, or is that kind of in between the two of those?

Rowena Gates: Its really more the performance side, because that is one of the reasons athletes perform so well is, they can train harder. If you recover faster, you can train harder and you can take your game to the next level, and the faster recovery is something that every trained athlete can notice. So, the athletes that are tuned in, they know how long it normally takes to feel good or how tough the workout normally feels and so on, they are tuned in. They can all tell the difference with the NanoVi.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay. So, I have had the device for a couple months now, and I want to talk about some of my personal experiences with this. For me personally, I have noticed it helps with sleep, because I have tracked it, and we were talking before about these you know consumer trackers, like the Oura ring and the Biostrap, and things like that, and generally my scores improved with that overtime with usage. I tend to use it more. I do a lot of hot yoga, and I think hot yoga is a great escape, I guess, and for me it is a great workout, because I am sweating like crazy, I am in the heat, there is this whole heat shock protein, you know, it is almost like an infrared sauna with a workout, with a meditation, and a ton of water flushing out. So, when I do that, I get home, I use it, and recovery is, you know, I bounce back the next day much faster, and these are tough workouts. I mean, I am in a 120-degree room for an hour, doing crazy poses, it is no joke, but whenever I use this device, I do feel like the next day is easy, and I can go back and do another class that next night.

Back in the day, before I was not using this, I felt like the next day would be, “oh my god, this is going to be tough to go back into this place.” So, personally, I have found that to be the biggest benefit for me. I think you may have seen my brother-in-law. I put a post; it was a couple of weeks ago. He rides motorcycles or let us say he did ride motorcycles, and he got swiped by a semi-truck on the freeway, and it was a pretty big accident, he survived, and you know, he is around now, he is getting better, but he was hospitalized for almost a month, with recovery and physical therapy. So, as soon as I found out about it, I actually took the device over to the hospital. This is kind of like what Dr. Pompa did too, I know his son had a major accident as well. I dropped it off at the hospital, and I told him just start using this thing as much as possible, your body has just been torn up, it is tons of oxidative stress and inflammation, and you need as much healing as possible. He used it for a couple days there, and I do not know if it was that or therapies or the drugs, whatever it was, I think all of it together made a big difference, and he was out of there faster than usual. The doctors came back and said, “hey you’re bouncing back and time to go home.” So, you know for, yeah that is an n of one, but it is personal and it helped him, and the biggest benefit is that, it was not a drug, It was not an IV, it was not pills, and just completely non-invasive, completely easy. He was bedridden. So, all he did is hook that machine up and put the cannula on and breathe and do whatever he had to do. So, I am very excited about that one.

Rowena Gates: Yeah, wow, that is scary.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: It is scary, but you know these are the benefits that we see when we have these technologies to utilize, and the third one is my dad, and I have not really mentioned this to you yet, but he is in an Alzheimer’s facility. So, he is, you know, now I have been dealing with this for a couple of years now with talking about chronic dementia, and I go see him about once a week. I took the machine with me couple weeks ago, just as an experiment, I brought it to the place. We had lunch, we hung out, we talked. He does not really recognize me anymore. So, it is just basically keeping him company, and I took the machine, I plugged it in, and he was a little fidgety first, but he is fully aware, and you know he will do stuff, and I put the cannulas on him, and he sat there, you know. First, he wanted to take it off, but I just told just hang with me here for a second. Within about a minute or two, he became very calm. I mean generally he is very talkative. He just talks kind of nonsense stuff, but once he had the machine on, and my mom was there too, and he has a caregiver there as well, and she goes. We only see him do that when he is kind of happy and calm, and he sat there for about 15 minutes, and we were just looking at him and smiling, and it was a beautiful thing, it was an amazing thing, so.

Rowena Gates: That’s really sweet.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, I know, it went on and on, but it was nice to see him like that. So, the personal benefits I have seen, I have been you know transformative, and I mean that is why I am excited to have you on here to talk about this, because we can talk about this cool biohacking gadget that you know all the cool people are using, but I mean if it really has these profound ramifications for helping people heal and get better, I think that is the major selling point there. Speaking of that and all this hospital stuff, this is not a medical device, right?

Rowena Gates: It is an FDA class I device, and that means that we do not make medical claims about it, it does not cure and treat, and so that is partly why it fits so well for optimizing performance, healthy aging, wellness, and we do not need to talk about any specific diseases. The body will address those. We just help the body work better.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: And you do not need a prescription for it?

Rowena Gates: Correct.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Right, and it does not interfere with any medications or supplements or anything like that?

Rowena Gates: It does not interfere. It is worth watching things, because if your body starts to work better, that might require other changes. You might be overcompensating for something if your body comes back online and starts doing it, you know, functioning better. You might not need as much supplementation, say as it used to need, and so it is worth just being mindful of that. So much of it is how you feel and, you know, you get a sense for it.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, and I think in this category, you know, a lot of people are quick to jump on the next supplement bandwagon or powder or mix or technology, but if there is ways to optimize the body on its own to help it heal, give it the tools, then you probably need less of all this other stuff that you are talking about here, right?

Rowena Gates: Yeah, depending what it is, because it is a huge spectrum from maybe some extra collagen all the way to some heavy-hitting pharmaceutical. There is certain pharmaceuticals that people use, where it is very easy to get an indication and either not need as much or need less, and for certain pharmaceuticals actually needing less over time is extremely rare, so those are things that that people can tell.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: So, this is not something that is intended to cure or diagnose anything. We touched on that.

Rowena Gates: That is correct.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: However, have you had any feedback or stories kind of like, I know, I have had my stories now too. What have you heard from people across the planet, I mean this is shipped internationally, right? This is all across the world.

Rowena Gates: Yes.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, what have you heard back from people who use this, like some any kind of transformative stories or anything?

Rowena Gates: Well, there are lots of them, and we have over 50 chronic illnesses that we have stories about. In some ways, it seems too good to be true, how could it help this and that and you know that just cannot be, but it is best not to think at that level, it is like good hydration or something, it helps everything, and so it is very fundamental.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: And those are the kinds of stories that I love it, it is the ones that you know that is not supposed to happen or how did that happen, just like, yeah.

Rowena Gates: Yeah, we get that a lot, like with your brother-in-law or surgeons, and it is not a study, it is not a medical, you know, there is nothing precise about it, but we get a lot of doctors that are kind of in disbelief of the progress a person’s making, that kind of thing.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: And I think I mentioned this to Martin as well too, who works for your company, about how the people that can benefit from it, the ones who maybe are more sick, have more room for improvement might notice the difference more profoundly or faster, is that possible?

Rowena Gates: That’s absolutely the case, and there is one caveat, but the other group that notices it are the high-performance people, and the one caveat with the people that are very ill is that some of them are very ill because they do not notice things.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yes, I know all about that.

Rowena Gates: It is how well tuned you are, and your condition, both.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, you have to be aware of the illness or your physical state to then be aware of the benefits, I think.

Rowena Gates: Right, and then there is also the frog in the water thing, where people can get better slowly and not notice it, because it is just gradual to them, whereas their son or daughter or aunt or whatever, will notice a profound impact. But there is a good number of people who don’t find it dramatic. You know “nothing has really happened”.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: I mean the tendency for people in society is like they wanted instant gratification, maximum results yesterday.

Rowena Gates: Exactly.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: But that is not how this typically works.

Rowena Gates: Right, right.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: It is a commitment; it is a lifestyle change.

Rowena Gates: Right and some people can notice right away, and many people will notice they sleep better that night. So, one session and they notice they sleep better, or there are certain things with fatigue that they notice more energy and they can tell things quickly, and then high-performance people can tell.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yes, it is like a race car, finely tuned race car.

Rowena Gates: Exactly.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: High precision machine.

Rowena Gates: And both mental and physical on that, but then after that it could become gradually and less obvious.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay. So, for people listening, how long does a session last?

Rowena Gates: There is three devices, and the difference is how powerful they are, and they vary from an hour to 15 minutes. Of course, you can do more or less, and generally I do far more than just the minimum. I do not stop, but I sit there and work. I do not even pay attention that I am using it, and I let that thing run.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: You can’t overdose on it?

Rowena Gates: No. You can. There are certain people if they are carrying a lot of toxicity, it does a great job in helping people, helping the cell function better, which includes letting go of toxins. So, the people that have a lot of toxicity have to start with short sessions and build up. If tit is too much they will start to feel a little woozy, and if they do not stop, they might start to get a headache. So, it is just sort of these symptoms of detox, and so for those people, they tend to know who they are, because they usually have some challenging condition, like Lyme or something. They just start slowly.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Is there an optimal time to use it or I guess it depends?

Rowena Gates: All the time. I think it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish for recovery clearly after. For athletes that want hormesis, they need to wait and not do it right after working out, they want to give time for all that damage to upregulate the system and then do it a few hours later. For performance, you can do it before. There is a study done on lactate, it shows dramatically less blood lactate in athletes that were pre-treated with the NanoVi, and by that, I mean 17% less.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: That is why I did a whole session before we started this, because I had to perform.

Rowena Gates: And that was placebo controlled. So, against a device that was just turned off inside. So, for athletes where lactate is an issue, then using it before they perform is a great idea.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, so if you want less lactic acid, is that what you are talking about. Are there any contraindications, can kids use it?

Rowena Gates: Yes. Kids can use it. We have had children as young as you know in the incubator in the hospital, kind of thing like really, really early, tiny babies.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: I know, I have had my kids use it, and they get a blast with all these biohacking stuff, and you know they are probably a bit more optimized than we are, and they have not been as damaged.

Rowena Gates: They are way better than we are.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: But there are also kids with chronic things as well going on, and that could be a big benefit for them.

Rowena Gates: Correct, and there is lots of kids with inflammation and issues that if it is not already, you know, a health concern, it will be.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Has it helped with like autism kids, have you guys had experience with that?

Rowena Gates: Yes, we have quite a lot of experience with autism, and I have to say what is appropriate to say. The autistic kids are it is interesting, because they call it a spectrum, but there really is a lot of variation within that group. For some kids, it can be a huge factor, and then less so for other kids, it may not be the piece of the puzzle for some autistic kids, where it is not for others. So, that is a variable, you want to try it.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, and the good thing is that it is fairly easy to get into it, I mean assuming there was, I mean what is the best way for people if they wanted to try this or do it or experience it, is there a locator or something on the website or?

Rowena Gates: Call Jay.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Come see me, and you can try it.

Rowena Gates: Yes. At the bottom of the footer of the website, there is a locator, and the website is eng3corp.com, and then down there, there is a locator you have to put your zip code in, and then it will tell you what is nearby. So, that is a good way to try it out, and then hopefully in most cities, there is somewhere that is handy to really try it, you want to use it regularly, not just once, and so we do what we can to make that possible for people.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah so speaking of, if you want to try it, you can. If you wanted to have it for yourself this technology, I would not call it mainstream yet, it is almost like the cell phones of the early days that were a little bit more expensive, and then as time goes on, it becomes much more attainable for people, but how would you justify the costs, I mean if you want to buy one of these, they are a still a little bit expensive I think for most people, how would you justify the cost?

Rowena Gates: So, just so people know, they range is from a little above five thousand dollars to a little bit below fourteen thousand dollars, just so people know what we are talking about. It really is a long-term benefit over the long haul, it is a tremendous value compared to something that is a consumable, and one thing that is wonderful about this device is it can treat 20 people a day – well not the one with the hour long session that you thought. The whole family can use it. Many people can share one device, and it is great in centers like the Alzheimer’s center, many people could use one device at a place like that, because it is handy. So that is really been our goal, to get it out more readily. We would love to have more in gyms and places that are more publicly available. So, we have many, many more sites than are listed on our locator, but if it is a medical doctor, they may not allow somebody to just come in and do a session, and so it would be nice to have it in places that are a little more public accessed.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, I think you know meditation for yoga places. I mean if my yoga place had one, I would be right there. I mean I think it is a perfect fit. Let us get them, let us go get them. The technology, so we talked about it is very easy to do. For people listening, I just want to kind of quickly summarize. You just sit there and you breathe the stuff in, you can either put your nose close up to the tube, I guess, or you can put a nasal cannula on and just close your eyes and breathe. The machine that I have is the 15-minute model, and you said it goes up to a 60 minute one. So, I will tend to do probably 20-30 minutes a day as well, and I will generally do it at night after yoga. I usually do yoga after work, and then I will go do that, and I will do some other little biohacking goodies as well too, and the sleep benefits have been very nice for me. Let us talk about that as well. How do you or what have you seen in terms of feedback as far as helping people with this and sleep?

Rowena Gates: Well, I just heard from James Paxton, who is a major league baseball pitcher for the Yankees, and that was one of the things he called out was the benefit for sleep, and for another major lead picture, Shane Green, who is with the Braves, the same thing. That was what they noticed. These are young healthy guys, and that is one of the things that they noticed as a standout, was to get better sleep, and that is just the body coming back into balance. We help the body, and one of the first things it is going to do is rebalance itself, and so this sympathetic, parasympathetic balance will improve, and that is why it is fairly universal, almost everybody has that experience.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Speaking of sleep too as well, and I have done episodes and trainings on jet lag hacking. I have seen some posts of people who will put this in their car as soon as they land off of the plane, they are driving back to their house, and they have got an ac adapter or whatever those cigarette lighter adapters, and they are using it in the car, have you noticed that as well too?

Rowena Gates: Well, for jet lag, it is definitely a huge improvement. Anything that requires a lot of repair and flights are, you know, you are getting hit, (they beat you up). Yeah, they do something, and so it is definitely used a lot for jet lag, and that is one of those executive function things, which is another place I would love to see it used is in corporations. Many people at work could share it, and executive function, these people are paid a lot of money, you know, they need to perform.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: So, instead of you know chatting around the water cooler, you are going to be gossiping around the NanoVi.

Rowena Gates: Exactly, exactly, and yet these, a woman or a man who gets off a plane and then they are meant to go right back into the office and work, you know they need help.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: And I am all about as much help as possible, and just to get back to kind of the cost and the investment of this thing, I have this discussion with patients every day as far as snoring and sleep apnea treatments and the investment in their health, and I tell them personally within reason, I will spend as much money as I can to avoid ever ending up in another hospital, short of having some kind of acute trauma. I do not want to get that chronic illness syndrome and whatever one out there, type 2 diabetes, Alzheimer’s dementia, cancer, any of those. So, if this device along with all the lifestyle stuff that I do in the biohacking and all that helps prevent that, I think that is worth a million times more than that.

Rowena Gates: And this is modern thinking that you invest in your health, because that is actually the most cost-effective thing to do even if you did not care about your health, because you just do not want to get really sick, that is expensive.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Folks you do not want to get sick, listen to Rowena, I can tell you it is expensive.

Rowena Gates: Yeah, so, and that is a new trend, so that is where we see a lot more people that are investing to prevent these problems later.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: So, we were talking about oxygen levels as well too, and I treat patients first sleep-disordered breathing, snoring, sleep apnea, and these people are stopping breathing 20, 30, 40 times an hour, or they are snoring off the charts, where their airflow is obstructed, and one of the things we test and measure while they are asleep, is our Spo2, oxygen levels, pulse ox, and these people will go down into the 70 percentile, 60 percentile. I have had patients up in the high 40s, and some of those I am like you need to go to the urgent care down the road, this is off the charts, it is crazy, but generally you know people will be down to 70%, and do you think this helps. I know we touched on it a little bit, but for people who are either snoring or have sleep apnea, can this help with them in terms of, I know it does not really open up the obstruction, but it can help with the inflammatory response of the body of not getting oxygen or the actual capacity of the body’s oxygen carrying ability?

Rowena Gates: Right with the oxygen utilization and all of those are protein functions of there too, you know, all of the repair and to transport and all of that, so that it absolutely has the potential for that better utilization, and just supporting the whole system.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yes, and I am going to continue, I mean I have it in my practice here. So, if you are in the LA area, and you want to come check it out, just shoot me a message on Instagram, I am on sleepbiohacker is my Instagram account, or snore experts, which is my business or practice, and then we could definitely figure something out for you to get here and try it out and see if it helps you. One of the questions I have been asking people that have been on the show lately, and I am kind of curious about, because I have my own is, what is your nighttime routine, how do you unwind and get ready for sleep.

Rowena Gates: I go to bed early and regularly. So, typically at about the same time, and I will do, I am one of these people that falls asleep within you know 40 seconds, and so I try to do a sort of a practice of gratitude and ending on a positive note. n the evening, I will always wear the orange-tinted glasses. I typically do not use the red (the blue blocking, we’re talking about the blue blocking glasses). Yeah, okay. Sometimes, I will use the red. (the reds are intense), but I will always use that. I will never look at screens at night with my eyes not protected, including movies. Sometimes, I have to tip the glasses up to see the bright green, it is like oh. (Yeah, you forget what color it is). Yeah, and so I never use screens, and I try to actually read real books (yeah) rather than doing a lot of reading online in the evening.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Okay, so a little bit of light mitigation, a little bit of mindfulness, and off you go in a book, which I have been reading a lot of books lately, actual physical paper books, which has been nice and just helps me unwind as well. So, I do like that routine, works for you, right? So, we mentioned it before, but people who want to learn more about this technology, I know it is a little bit complicated sometimes to really grasp what this is. I think if you saw the explainer videos on your website, that makes it a lot easier, and where can they go to learn more about this again?

Rowena Gates: So, that is eng3corp.com, and if you are willing to fill in the form there, we are willing to not spam you. So, when we send information out, we do send the pricing, but then we are sending results of studies, and things like that. We are not sending, you know, buy this device now, and so we do send out emails, but they are always things that would be of interest to somebody who is interested in health and well-being, and potentially the NanoVi device.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah. So, for people listening, I would recommend you go to the website, check it out, this is some technology that I do not know if it is ahead of its time or now the time, I know they have spent many years developing this and countless hours, it has been for me, I get excited, because this is stuff that is thinking outside the box a little bit, and it makes a big difference with minimal cost, at least in terms of needing to take some kind of pill or some kind of injection or some kind of IV. I know all these people out there love doing all this biohacking stuff. For me, I will take as much as I can, but if there are ways to get it non-invasively, quickly, calmly, I am going to go for that, that is just me. I think this has been a fascinating show. I want to thank Rowena from Eng3 or NanoVi, to thank her for coming out here. I learned a lot. I hope people listening have as well.

Rowena Gates: Hopefully, and just another comment on that website, there is a how it works page, which has a 3-minute 3D animated video, that does a far better job than I do, or most other people. So, if you are curious, that is a good place to go and be entertained for three minutes and see what we are talking about.

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Yeah, I would encourage everyone to go check that out, think about your health, your lifestyle. Think about your goals, you know, like we said we want to be a little bit more aware of where we want to be and how we want to get there, things like this are technologies that can actually change and revolutionize your life. So, Rowena, thanks for joining me today on The Best Night Ever podcast. This has been a blast, and I look forward to seeing you soon.

Rowena Gates: Oh, thanks so much!

Dr. Jay Khorsandi: Well, folks, you have made it to the end and thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Rowena is an absolute sweetheart. She is a chock-full of information and she is really dedicated to helping people all across the world. Again, I always encourage you to go out there and learn more about these different technologies in her company. If you want to learn more about me or see these things in action, you can also follow me on my Instagram account, it is called sleep biohacker. Again, I am that guy that loves to hack his sleep. So, sleep biohacker on Instagram is where you can find me. Thanks again for tuning in to the show. If you know people that might be interested in learning about these things that I talk about, please share. You know, if you can get this over to a couple of people that want to learn more about sleep hacking, that is what I do this for. I know when I mention it to people, they say I need to know where I can get more of this information. So, you have listened to it, you made it all the way to here. So, please hit those little three dots, I think on your phone, and send it over to someone who can potentially benefit. Other than that, thanks again for tuning in, stay tuned for more episodes, and see you all next time. Actually, have a best night ever. Goodbye.

This broadcast is for informational purposes only. Statements and views expressed in this show are not medical advice. The show including Dr. Jay Khorsandi, the co-host, guest, and the producers disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of any information contained herein. Opinions of the guests are their own. We do not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests, nor do we make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. If you think you have a medical problem, please consult a licensed physician.